Elton John temporarily parted ways with the sculpture of the green-table woman, only to have it restored by the studio of Allen Jones (86 years old, a renowned artist of English Pop Art). While Kate Moss's perfect body is a Venus, an armor-sculpture with a copper-colored "skin".
Do your fetishistic works still scandalize people today, Mr. Jones?
"What you just asked me is a demonstration of how I had to stretch when it was said that my work objectified women. This does not mean that it is what I had in mind. The artist Balthus is now criticized for painting children. And once someone points it out, you can't help but see that this child is sitting with her legs open. You know, most children sit like that. But, highlighted as an illustration of a particular thing, then it limits the interpretation of that image. And now I think for many people it is difficult to look at Balthus without thinking that maybe he was a bad guy. I believe that this damages the image and the history of art."
"What you just asked me is a demonstration of how I had to stretch when it was said that my work objectified women. This does not mean that it is what I had in mind. The artist Balthus is now criticized for painting children. And once someone points it out, you can't help but see that this child is sitting with her legs open. You know, most children sit like that. But, highlighted as an illustration of a particular thing, then it limits the interpretation of that image. And now I think for many people it is difficult to look at Balthus without thinking that maybe he was a bad guy. I believe that this damages the image and the history of art."
He is keen to point out that two-thirds of his production is painting, also combined with sculpture, as we can see in his solo show "Forever Icon" at the Galleria d'Arte Maggiore in Bologna (until 14/04).
"All painting or art is based on illusion. If you have a three-dimensional surface emerging from that painting, on it you are creating an image that itself is an illusion, and you can even suggest movement."
In reality, the fetish sculptures were his reaction to minimalism...
"Well, obviously no one lives in a pneumatic vacuum. At the time I lived and worked in New York, I was a painter. And if you were dealing with the figure, it wasn't fashionable, you lost favor with the critics. Avant-garde painting had moved from abstraction to minimalism, a name on everyone's lips was Donald Judd with his empty steel "boxes". I could intellectually understand this development, but I couldn't find a reason not to use figuration myself. I realized that the problem was not the subject, but the language used, which had been exhausted. I thought it must be possible to represent the figure in a way that did not rely on art history and did not reassure the observer."
"All painting or art is based on illusion. If you have a three-dimensional surface emerging from that painting, on it you are creating an image that itself is an illusion, and you can even suggest movement."
In reality, the fetish sculptures were his reaction to minimalism...
"Well, obviously no one lives in a pneumatic vacuum. At the time I lived and worked in New York, I was a painter. And if you were dealing with the figure, it wasn't fashionable, you lost favor with the critics. Avant-garde painting had moved from abstraction to minimalism, a name on everyone's lips was Donald Judd with his empty steel "boxes". I could intellectually understand this development, but I couldn't find a reason not to use figuration myself. I realized that the problem was not the subject, but the language used, which had been exhausted. I thought it must be possible to represent the figure in a way that did not rely on art history and did not reassure the observer."
To create these erotic sculptures, he turned to Madame Tussauds wax museum in London.
"When I moved from New York to London (my first wife was expecting twins, born in 1968, and although I was doing well as an artist, I couldn't afford to raise two daughters simultaneously in a private school in Manhattan), I contacted the museum which recommended one of the sculptors working for them. I gave him instructions and drawings. And by having the figure made by someone else, I eliminated my involvement. The first figure, Hatstand, was the one standing, with arms raised, in a welcoming pose. But if the figure had worn normal clothes, it would have looked like a strange mannequin from a Bond Street shop window. I wondered how the figure could be dressed so that the genitals were covered. So with a nightclub stripper costume. At that time there was Playboy magazine, advertised everywhere. Such a fun idea, all dressed with rabbit ears and tail."
"When I moved from New York to London (my first wife was expecting twins, born in 1968, and although I was doing well as an artist, I couldn't afford to raise two daughters simultaneously in a private school in Manhattan), I contacted the museum which recommended one of the sculptors working for them. I gave him instructions and drawings. And by having the figure made by someone else, I eliminated my involvement. The first figure, Hatstand, was the one standing, with arms raised, in a welcoming pose. But if the figure had worn normal clothes, it would have looked like a strange mannequin from a Bond Street shop window. I wondered how the figure could be dressed so that the genitals were covered. So with a nightclub stripper costume. At that time there was Playboy magazine, advertised everywhere. Such a fun idea, all dressed with rabbit ears and tail."
In 1968 in Paris, young people ignited the revolution of customs and society. And, in 1969, going against the trend, he created the woman-table and the woman-chair...
"I had the idea that, perhaps, if I gave my sculptures a function, that would further unsettle the observer's expectations. And I had seen in some comic the figure of a table. So we made the table and then the chair, and it happens to be the period when the feminist movement was gaining strength, but we were all part of the same society and the same world. And my work was a comment that, coincidentally, produced a perfect image for their campaign. But I made these sculptures to extend and offend the canons of art. Not other people. I created my works for artistic reasons. But, no matter what I say, this sounds like an excuse."
In the 1970s, his exhibitions were attacked by feminist groups. The most striking protest?
"Well, for me it was quite shocking. If you make any representation, you objectify the figure, even if you're Rembrandt. I had a show at the ICA in London. On the street, I saw a lot of police and understood that something was happening. I remember saying to my wife, 'Oh, look, they must have parked on the road leading to Buckingham Palace, it's illegal!' When I entered the gallery, I saw all that madness. Strangely, most of those protesting were gay men, who were sticking stickers on the works, thankfully graphics, all under glass. There was chaos. My father had come to see the show and couldn't believe what was happening. The gallery director, accompanied by a senior police officer, introduced me: 'This is the artist.' I thought this man was going to give me a hard time. But actually, he just said, 'Sign a poster for the colleagues at the police station.' And if the police weren't worried about it, then I shouldn't worry either. I produced a perfect image for the feminist issue, seeing a figure on all fours used as a table. Okay, but they could have taken issue with a fetish magazine or something."
In the 1950s and 1960s, there were icons like Jackie Kennedy, Marilyn Monroe, Liz Taylor, Brigitte Bardot, Raquel Welch, Jane Fonda in Barbarella, and also Ursula Andress in 007. Today for you, but also for other artists, the muse is Kate Moss. What is so special about this top model to immortalize her in sculpture?
"Very photogenic. Certain people suddenly become ubiquitous. But the thing that has always interested me most, in terms of beautiful women in advertising or in cinema, was how different the American view was from the European one. And I realized that European movie stars expressed more sexuality. Brigitte Bardot more than Marilyn Monroe." Stanley Kubrick in the film A Clockwork Orange was inspired by your work...
"I never met him, we only spoke on the phone, he had seen one of my exhibitions and wanted to know if I would work with him on set of the film by designing the club, the furnishings. And I was excited about it. Then I said to him, 'Well, it will be a job of three or six months, how much can you pay?' But I was absolutely shocked by what he said: 'I'm a famous director, and if you make yourself noticed in my film, you'll have a lot of work.' I replied, 'No, I'm not a cinema set designer. If you can get me an exhibition at the Louvre or MoMA, then okay, yes, I'll do it.' Then, in the end, I told him, 'If you like my idea and want to use it, go ahead.' You can't patent ideas."
